Price.
Weak Diodes.
There has been a lot of buzz lately over the Penetrator Generation X lights produced by Hydro Grow LED. Today, we’ll review these lights, but before we delve into the nitty-gritty, we need to get organized. Hydro Grow LED (HGL Technologies) currently produces four lines of lights:
The X series lights are their newest lights. To keep this all straight in your mind just remember that the X stands for their new X-lens technology. More on this in minute, but basically it’s a secondary lens that makes the lights more powerful. Also remember that the “pro” designation stands for 3w diodes instead of 1w diodes.
We’ll be focusing on the Penetrator X series today (mainly the 3-watt pro series). There are six variations of the penetrator x: the 336x-pro, the 180x-pro, the 168x-pro, the 126x-pro, the 84x-pro, and the 21x-pro. The numbers in front of the x’s actually stand for the amount of diodes used and not the watts (more on this in a moment).
Don’t get overwhelmed by the amount of lights listed here. Once you get the basics down for one of these lights, you’ll have a good feel for all of the rest of them. I’m not going to review each individual variation because that would be redundant. I’ll review the 126-x pro that covers a six (3X2) square foot area and then I’ll mention any differences in the other lights that I feel are noteworthy.
Penetrator 126X-Pro Review
I decided to review the 126x version because it covers one of the most common grow areas (3’ X 2’ or six square feet). Let’s get down to the review.
Warranty: A+
The 126x-pro comes with a three-year warranty. This is a good indicator that the light is built to last. The industry standard for warranties is probably one to two years. I always recommend reading all the details about the warranties before purchasing a light. This is a great warranty, but you should still understand it fully. Here’s where you can go to read the details: http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Our-Policies-C15.aspx.
One of the reasons, I give the warranty an A+ score is due to the new modular design. What does design have to do with the warranty you ask? I’ll show you in the next section
Modular Design
I don’t build LED grow lights, but if I did I would be kicking myself for not thinking of this first. HGL Tech’s modular design is a simple change in philosophy that will make a big impact on user experience. Normally, a grow light consists of one printed circuit board (PCB) and anywhere from 50 to 500 individual LEDs. If one of these individual diodes fails, then you have to send the whole light back to replace it.
Read here to see how the modular design saved one of my grows.
The following picture isn’t your average LED grow light, but it illustrates the point very well:
The light pictured above has 100 LEDs on one PCB. Now, let’s pretend that just 3 of these 100 LEDs stop working. You really only have two options with traditional LED grow lights: (1) Admit that life isn’t fair, curse the day that the makers of this light were born, and live with the reduced amount of light. (2) Use your warranty, send the whole light back to the manufacturer, and wait eight weeks for it to get back from China. If you choose option two then you’ll probably have to pay for the shipping and you won’t be able to grow anything for eight weeks.
HGL Technologies solves this problem brilliantly by introducing modules into their x-series lights. Note that the picture below is actually of the 84X-pro and not the 126x-pro (as I mentioned earlier they are all part of the same line of lights, they just have different coverage areas).
There are four modules in this light. Each module has its own PCB and diodes. If, as in our example above, three of the diodes stop working you can continue business as usual and have HGL Technologies ship you a replacement module right away. Once the replacement module arrives, you just pop it in where the non-functioning module was and you’re back to full-capacity without having to stop growing for eight weeks while your light was in Timbuktu, I mean China.
Trial Period: A
The trial period for this light is 90 days. Some companies don’t offer a trial period and I would say the industry standard is around 30 days. No complaints here about a 90 day testing period. “If for any reason you are less than impressed,” you can send the light back for a full refund within 90 days.
Price Range: B+
The 126x-pro is priced at $899 (Yes I realize that $899 is a lot of money upfront, but remember LEDs last a long time–try finding a 3-year warranty on an HPS lamp.). You can visit the official site to get the pricing on all the other x-series lights. Just find the light that fits the area you want covered. As an additional tip for those of you growing in an area larger than six square feet, I always prefer to buy several smaller lights instead of one larger light. This is just my personal preference as I have found that plants seem to do better under multiple smaller lights than one large light (some of my fellow growers have noted the same thing).
This light is actually very reasonably priced, but I just can’t find it in my heart to give a $900 light a solid A score. Most of the high-quality LED grow lights on the market run about $4-$8 per watt. This light is running at ($900/200w) = $4.5 per watt. This is a really good deal for the quality of light you are getting.
Heat Sink: A+
Some companies aren’t paying as much attention to heat sinks as I think they should; HGL is not one of those companies. Having a great heat dissipation system in place will dramatically increase the life of your LEDs (and if your LEDs last as long as they should, then the initial upfront costs of these lights will be worth it).
The 126w generation X heat sink comes with all the things you normally want to see in a heat sink. It is made up of both copper and aluminum (the two best metals for heat dissipation). In addition it has lots of thin fins that help get the heat away from the LED chips quickly. Read here for my full discussion on heat sinks.
Spectral Wave-Lengths: A
I don’t think anyone has the “perfect” spectrum yet. If someone had found it, then the LED grow companies wouldn’t be adjusting their spectrums all the time. That being said, I think that the Penetrator series is as close to “perfect” as any other LED grow light out there on the market right now. It gets an A grade for having peak wavelengths at 440nm, 470nm, 525nm, 640nm, 660nm, and 740nm.
Actual Watts Drawn: A+
I really love how Hydro Grow LED labels their lights using diodes instead of watts. The way LED grow lights have traditionally been labeled has led to a lot of confusion. For example, the industry standard is to label your light a 500 watt light when it actually only draws around 300 watts of power. I have an in-depth explanation of how watt labeling on LED lights works here. The basic idea is that a 3-watt diode actually only draws around 1.5 watts of power. So if you have a light with fifty 3-watt diodes, then you label it a 150 watt light (50*3) even though it only actually draws around 75 watts (50*1.5) of power.
Well, you might guess that people were getting confused about this and some people were getting angry because they thought they were getting more powerful lights than they actually were. HGL Technologies has decided to combat this by simply labeling their lights by the number of diodes the light has. Then they list the actual watts drawn right below the name of the light. For example the 126x-pro has 126 LEDs on it. These are 3-watt LEDs. Everyone else in the industry would be labeling this light the 378w X-pro (126*3), but HGL is simply labeling it126x. Here’s what you’ll see on their website.
This labeling should clear up a lot of confusion in the industry and I personally hope that the other companies start adopting this approach soon so that consumers won’t be fooled into purchasing a light that won’t work for their needs. Customers need to focus on actual watt draw instead of labeled watts.
Anyways, this 200w light will cover an area of about six square feet (3X2) for flowering purposes. It will cover a slightly larger area for vegetative purposes. Now, I normally recommend about 200watts of LED growing power for a four square foot area, but that was before the x-lens was developed.
X-Lens Technology
The idea of a secondary lens on an LED light is not a new idea. Those using LEDs for spotlights and aquariums have been using secondary lenses for a while. However, the x-series is the first time I’ve seen a secondary lens begin used on an LED grow light.
Keep in mind that the idea is to get the plant all the light it needs using the smallest amount of energy (watts). Most LED grow lights only have a primary lens that wastes a noticeable amount of light. Having two lenses allows for more control of the light, meaning less light is hitting the wall and bouncing off into oblivion and more light is hitting the plant. This means a lower-watt light with a secondary lens can provide as much light as a higher-watt light without a secondary lens. (See image below).
If you are still having a hard time grasping this concept just think of your everyday flashlight compared to a lantern. Flashlights have two lenses; a primary lens at the source of the light and then the secondary lens to channel the light in the proper direction. Without this guiding light, the flashlight would waste light by spraying it out in all directions like a lantern.
By adding the x-lens to the Penetrator, HydroGrowLED was able to double the power of the light (in terms of micromole output). This means more light for your plants with even less power used.
Beam Angle: A
The Penetrators run on a 60 degree primary beam angle. It is my opinion that there is no “perfect” beam angle. 120 degree lights cover a wider area, but only work well on very short plants. 60 degree lights cover a smaller area, but are much better for most plants. The x-series LED lights work well for both short plants and tall plants because the narrow beam angle and the x-lens technology combine to make some powerful, focused rays of light that penetrate to the lower levels of the plant.
When it comes to light power (micromole output) I prefer the “better safe than sorry” philosophy. I would rather have a higher-powered beam and feel comforted knowing that the lower levels of my plants are getting all the light they need. Keep in mind that if you are growing short plants you can always simply place the light a little farther away. If your light doesn’t have enough power, then it doesn’t matter how close you place it to the plant; it simply won’t get the job done.
Conclusion
This is currently my top-rated light due to the new x-lens technology and the modularity design. It is built with quality in mind and it comes with the warranty and trial period to back it up. This way you can give the x-series lights a try without a lot of risk on your behalf. If the light ends up not meeting your expectations you can always send it back for a full refund.
Go here to check out the full series of Penetrator X-Pro Lights.
Hi Nate !
You do not know why this series of X-PRO is removed from production so soon after the start of sales? Once a suspicious …
“”Major Discount on ALL Penetrator & Penetrator PRO models!
Hydro Grow will be announcing our all new ECO and ECO+ LED Grow Lights in the coming weeks, and part of bringing in a new product line is clearing out the old. We have a stockpile of extra parts on hand for our Penetrator and Penetrator PRO models, however both of these product lines are being discontinued in 2012. We will still service these lights as they come with our standard 3 year warranty, but we will no longer sell them. The stock quantities for each model are listed on their respective product pages in the checkout box. Quantities are limited, and once they are sold out they are gone forever! Buy the last of our Penetrator and Penetrator PRO models now for major savings just in time for the Holidays! 661-654-9367 Call Today to place your order, or visit us online: http://www.hydrogrowled.com“”
Hey Zarip,
As always, thanks for stopping by. There’s no need to panic. The X-Pro modules are not being replaced; it’s the Penetrator and Penetrator Pro models that are being replaced. They are the older version models (2010 model).
I know it’s a bit confusing, but here’s how I think of it. Each year every LED grow light company releases an updated/new version of their lights (kind of like cars). Last year (2010, beginning of 2011) HydroGrowLED had the Penetrator 1 watt and Penetrator Pro 3 watt module. In 2011 HydroGrow released the x-lens technology version (the X-lens made the light more intense). The X-series lights are the lights discussed in this review.
Now HydroGrow is coming out with the Eco and Eco+ LED grow lights to replace the old penetrators (not the x-series penetrators). I’ve talked with Cammie and Vince and the idea behind the Eco and Eco+ light is a less expensive light for smaller grows. I should wait until all the details are released, but from what I’m gathering this is going to be a less expensive light for people who don’t need as much power. The Eco models are not intended to replace the X-series models!
That being said, I’m hearing rumblings about X2 lights being released in 2012. X2 will be an upgrade over the current x-series. Upgrading to the X2 version won’t require you to buy a new light because of the modularity design (this is going to be a huge money saver for those who always like having the latest and greatest).
Best,
Nate
Yo bro) I’m a little smoke break yesterday)
Thank you for the explanation. We will wait for X2 – but the yield obtained with X-PRO pleased me)
I am interested to know how you can give Hydrogrow a A+ Warranty when they say this on their site:
All Generation-X lights are offered with a 90-Day Risk Free Trial. If for any reason you are less than impressed within 90 days of receiving your product, you can return your lights for a 100% refund of the price you paid less the original shipping cost. The refund will be processed via the same method used for payment within 48 hours of receiving the returned merchandise. Return merchandise must be in as-new condition, in proper packaging, with all appropriate power cords and hanging pieces. If any part is missing, the return will be refused and returned to sender. The 90-Day Trial offer applies only to the standard “Red” Generation-X lights available through our site. We do not offer returns on customized (color, lensing, etc…) or international models, as these are special order items. Returns are limited to (2) LED Grow Lights per customer. Return postage is the responsibility of the consumer. Cancellations are only offered in the event that your item has not yet shipped. If you wish to cancel your order, a 20% restocking fee will apply. There are no exceptions to this policy.
As you can see you can only return 2 lights per customer, so if I ordered 4 lights I can only return two. Also if I want to cancel a order they charge me a 20% restocking fee. It makes me think that you are not reviewing your facts correctly which makes me think that alot of your other resource is flawed. Very interested to know what you have to say on this. I think I will stick with my HPS lights, until I can be proven otherwies.
Hey John,
Sorry for the slow response on your comment.
I think you are missing the point of a trial period. The idea during the trial period is to determine if the light works. Most people don’t purchase four lights to see if the light works (given the cost of the lights). Usually they just purchase one light and give it a try. Then if the light meets their expectations they purchase as many as they need.
Does that make sense? They get an A+ score because of their 90 day money back guarantee, three year warranty, and their modularity design (never seen before in the LED growing industry).
HPS lights are great lights and if you feel strongly about them then I wouldn’t recommend that you change. There is a bit of a learning curve when you switch from HID to LED so you have to be fully on board before switching.
Food for thought: Can you find me any HPS light that offers you a three year warranty and a 90 day trial period?
Good luck growing!
Nate
Hi Nate,
Hey great review, I am interested in a light like this and have stumbled across this company who looks like they are building a similar fixture the Fero 270 4G Series LED Grow Light – 90*3W LED Grow Light, do you think they are the same fixture under another label?
Thanks.
Hey Joe,
I honestly can’t believe how many knockoff versions of the Penetrator I find on the Internet. I hadn’t seen that one by Fero so thanks for pointing it out to me. Yeah, it’s definitely a knockoff.
Now, the real question for us as consumers is whether or not the light works right? I mean we could care less if it’s a knockoff. If it’s cheaper and it works just as well, then I’m all for it. However, my experience in the LED grow light industry has been that the cheaper versions don’t work as well and don’t last as long. The manufacturers of these knockoffs end up skimping on heat sinks, diodes, and drivers. This means that your LED light that’s supposed to last for 50,000 hours might not even last for a year. If an LED light doesn’t last for a year then you might as well be purchasing an HID light. You know what I mean?
Unfortunately for us consumers, right now LED grow lights aren’t commodities like socks, food, or paper. I always buy the cheapest socks and food I can find (I’m a cheap guy) but when it comes to items that aren’t commodities I like to make sure I get a high quality product.
If you are really looking to save some money, then I’d recommend going with LightHouse Hydro. They get great reviews, have lots of successful grow journals, and are a bit cheaper than the other lights on the market. The Lighthouse Hydro light isn’t as good as the Penetrator in my humble opinion, but it’s a good option for those of us on a budget. You can read my full Lighthouse Review here.
Thanks for stopping by.
Nate
I just completed my 1st grow with the penetrator pro 84X in a 3X3X6 grow tent. The lights are great and the results are amazing. Better than you could imagine. I am now working on my 2nd grow and I am still very happy and impressed. If there is one thing to remember when growing your plants, it is:”your plant will only be as good as the seeds you use? Buy from out of the country through the internet and the wait will be worth it.
The 84x Pro is great and I am saving to buy a 2nd. everyone knows 2 tents are be better than 1
Hey Michael,
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Penetrator Pro. I love my 126X-pro. The x-pro’s are a little pricey but they make up for it in terms of quality of grow and longevity of the light. If half the light breaks down you can keep it up and running why they send you the replacement parts. This has saved me in the past from having a period without lighting for my plants.
Of course now I have more LED grow lights than I do space to grow. Time to kick the kids out :).
Nate
Hi Nate,
Great site! I really like how you are managing the site, I think you are well on your way to being the best source for LED info. I am thinking of settling for a combination of fluorescent and LED as the greenhouse is 25x22x18 feet (LxWxH). It’s no tent that’s for sure. Anyway, I am writing because I have my mind set on the 84x-Pro or the Spectra LED180. I’m confused about the 84x-Pros output. The site says it has 84 x 3Watt LEDs so that would be 252Watts right? They say it has 108W.
Now between the two, 84x-Pro and the Spectra, you mentioned that you “have yet to come across anyone who has something negative to say about the Spectra line of lights. This light works incredibly well and is built to last.” The spectra has 12+ wavelengths of illumination and claims to have an actual power draw of 180W and costs $499.99, BUT it is a 3w-3Chip LED system. Would you please help me decide between the two which is a better deal for the space I have to fill. (or should I just stick with HID or florescent haha)
The lights will be used for a long term, year round greenhouse. We get a lot of rain with temperatures ranging from 15-30 deg C depending on what month. The greenhouse will be designed to suit the lights, ie. if its HID then lots of ventilation etc.
Thanx in advance and keep up the good work.
Hey John,
Thanks for the compliment. I’m really trying my best to bring some clarity to the LED growing world and I’ve got some additions coming to the site in the near future that I think are going to make it very useful indeed.
First off, love the growing area!
Second off, you’ve run into one of the most common issues with LED grow lights. I’ve got a semi-technical article about watt differences in LED grow lights if you want to read it from start to finish. If you don’t want to read my rather lengthy explanation then just know that each 3 watt diode in the 84X-Pro doesn’t actually draw 3 watts of power. That is a universal law for all LED diodes (not just the 84X). It’s actually a good thing that Hydro Grow LED (the company that sells the Penetrators) lists the actual watts drawn. Some, less ethical, companies would list that light as a 252 watt X pro and you’d think you’re getting a lot bigger light than you really are.
Third off, I need to update my Spectra review. I just barely talked with Mike, the owner, and his company has just unleashed the 2012 version of the Spectra. If I remember right he switched from a 3w-3chip system to a true 3 watt diode which I think is a smart change (an improvement). The 3w-3chippers work fine but the true 3 watt diodes are better in my opinion (don’t tell the companies that make the 3w-3chip lights that I said that. They’ll have my head).
I’m honestly glad to see that you are deciding between the Spectra and the Penetrator (they are two of the highest quality lights out there and they are both built to last).
Okay so I need to get a better idea of your greenhouse here. I’m guessing that you are going to be getting natural sunlight as well right? Or is this some sort of dark greenhouse because if this is a dark greenhouse then you are going to need a lot of 84x’s or spectras to cover the area. You might want to consider a slightly larger light.
The LED vs HID question is a good one. I think that LEDs would actually be a good choice for someone thinking long term like you are. Your initial costs will be quite a bit higher but if you are going to run these lights year after year, then LED is the way to go in my opinion. Your ventilation, heating, and cooling will be much easier to manage with LEDs.
Okay I’m emailing you because I need a lot of questions answered.
Best,
Nate
Thanks so much for your helpful website, I am excited about the potential of LED and Plasma Lighting, I just haven’t been able to find enough verified research that makes me comfortable to plop down for these expensive lights.
I am wondering if you know much about the Stealth Grow brand (not the Grow Stealth brand) and how the SG602 compares to others like this Penetrator? Greners and SunLight Supply both seem to think they are good, and not finding much other reviews.
My set-up is only 4 feet tall (10 inches of soil, hoping for about 2 feet for plants, leaving 14 inches for light and light spread…). First wondering on minimum height from canopy to light to achieve a 4 foot by 4 foot coverage area. Realize different lights are different, is there a general range or do you know specifics for different brands?
Any other recommendations for a 4’x4’x4’ area would be appreciated.
Also, any thoughts on Plasma lights (such as the Chameleon) and how they might compare to LED would be appreciated.
Thanks again.
Hey Chris,
I’m still in the research phase as far as plasma lighting goes (and to be honest I think the plasma light manufacturers are as well). I haven’t reviewed the Stealth Grow lights in detail, but I wouldn’t really put much stock in a review from Greners or SunLight Supply because they are selling the lights. They have a bunch of them in their warehouses that they need to sell if you know what I mean.
I’m not saying they aren’t good lights (I still need to review them). The fact that nobody else is talking about them and I haven’t seen any grows with them makes me wonder though.
As far as your grow goes. You aren’t going to have a lot of room for your lights.
Different LEDs recommend a different height from the plant. I’d say the general rule is to start with the light about 24 inches away from the plant and then during the flowering phase to have it at about 12 inches away from the plant.
The good thing about LEDs is that they won’t really burn your plants like an HPS would at this distance. That being said, I think you are going to be pushing it to find space for your lights and your plant in that short of an area. I might actually recommend an LED with a wider beam angle in your case (so the plants don’t get bleached from too much light). A prosource light or a blackstar light might be a better fit for your grow. I may even consider going with compact fluorescents just because they can be very thin lights.
Let us know what you end up doing.
Best,
Nate
I just got a new 84×2 pro and so far the light seems to be working great.the only slight downside is the Led says power consumption of 145-155watts, but only draws 125 watts. The staff at hydrogrow were easy to work with but did confirm that the reading I was getting was correct.hopefully I will have better updates on a grow in a couple weeks.
Hey Aj,
Thanks. Keep us updated.
Had to send back the light already to be fixed.had LED’s go out in 2 modules and LEDs dimming in another.but the customer service has been top notch.
Hey Nate, I’m very happy that I happened upon your website two days ago….it’s all I have been doing since then!
My first question for you is: where did you find this grow light (126X-Pro) at $899? All I can find is that it is listed for $999 on their own website, which is “marked down” from $1099. Did the price go up, or are you finding this light from a vendor that I cannot seem to find? At $899 this light would be totally worth it, however I think the price is actually higher.
Second question: HydroGrow Led has a You-Tube video which demonstrates a side-by-side grow against a Haight Solid State PPF-800 led light. I know you get alot of people asking you to review other lights, and it probably annoys you a little, but I’m wondering if that light would be worth your while running a review on, since either HydroGrow sees HSS as a real competitor, or (more likely) an easy target to make them look better than. I do currently use a HSS PPF-400 for vegging, and it has been working well for over 2 years w/o cooling fans or heat sinks. I know that HSS has recently upgraded their PPF-800 to a newer RV2 model which includes 6W hyper white leds, but still no upgrades to add heatsinks or fans, and still a half-ass website with minimal information about their technology…and that is a little scary in my opinion. Please excuse my long-windedness, but I really wonder about this company, and I value your opinion.
Hey Jordan,
Here’s my opinion as I’ve been surveying the LED grow light landscape. Initially Haight was one of the big boys. When HydroGrow made that You-Tube video they were trying to portray their light against one of the best lights out there (I’ve seen that video before but I can’t remember how old it is now). Anyways, I think times have changed and Haight has kind of stayed the same.
Keep in mind that I haven’t actually reviewed one of Haight’s lights (so I feel a little bad about saying they are falling behind). However, I haven’t had anyone ask me to review their lights, I don’t see them being talked about in the forums, and as you so bluntly yet accurately put it their website looks “half-assed.”
Kind of hard for me to put a lot of time and money into investigating their lights when they don’t seem to be trying.
PS. You’re right about the HydroGrow price increase. I’ll update my site.
Great customer service got the light serviced and back with 1 business day .before I sent the light back to get fixed results have been stellar.running the 84×2 pro against the solarflare right now.should be interesting.
Woah AJ. Why didn’t you contact me about this grow earlier? Send me some pictures and analysis and we’ll get it up on this website so everybody can see (haha if you want too of course).
Best,
Nate
Hey Nate,
Awesome LED review! I wish I would have found your site when I was looking at buying grow lights.
I bought two of the 84x lights about a eight months ago, and I am super happy with them! I grow mostly automatics in a 4×4 room, and I think hese lights work perfect. I am currently growing one photoperiod Haze plant and it’s huge.
The people at Hydro Grow are really helpful, and I’m pretty sure they grow the same thing we do. These lights put off very little heat compared to CFLs or HIDs, and use less power. I also love the Modular design. I talked to the people at Hydro about switching the lenses in my older version light to the new lens. Hey told me that all I have to do is unscrew the old lens and screw the new ones in. The new lenses cost $15 American and say they will raise the light output by 25%. The gal at Hydro said the new lenses would make my 1w diodes perform like the 3w diodes. I’m going to upgrade for sure.
Keep up the good work!
Hey Mike,
Thanks for stopping by. I love the Penetrator series. The modular design is simply genius.
What other lights are you running in your 4X4 room??? Two 84X’s would be a huge stretch. haha
Best,
Nate
Hey Nate I would be glad to send you a side by side comparison.i have two clones coming in soon. What is your email and I can send you pictures as I go. Which light did you like better the solarflare or hydrogrow led?
Hey Aj,
Yes please send pictures and updates. My email is johnson.nate21@yahoo.com.
Look forward to working with you on this.
Two weeks ago I put in service the 126X Pro in 2 x 2ft area with a fixed height of about 3.5 ft to the floor. I must say I am very impressed with the veg. growth. These plants were started for a month prior under CFL and the results were nothing spectacular with slow but steady growth (but stretchy in week 1). Under the 126X the plants responded immediately in a very positive way. Plants are healthy with very short internodal distance and lots of new leaves sprouting under extremely large fan leaves. It is growth explosion! The tops of the plants are still about 25 in. from the light and no apparent stretching. As a matter of fact I have so much undergrowth I am not going to trim these plants as I think they are going to be massive bushes. I do use bamboo sticks to nudge the large fan leaves out of the way so the undergrowth can get the light “penetration”. If this light works as well in flower as in veg then the results are going to be spectaclular. So what can I expect in flower ? I go for quality versus quantity and so far so good. Great info Nate and will be looking for new LED technology as time goes by.